Anyone Keeping The Iranian Cichlid - Iranocichla Hormuzensis

Discussion about cichlids from Africa other than Rift Lake
Mark Smith
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Anyone Keeping The Iranian Cichlid - Iranocichla Hormuzensis

Post by Mark Smith » Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:38 pm

Hello all:

Just thought I would post a query to see if anyone out their in the world is keeping this beautiful, dwarf-sized tilapiine. I think there is a photo of a live one, (or freshly killed specimen) on Fishbase. A very attractive species.

Mark Smith

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Post by Philippe Burnel » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:35 am

The species has been kept in germany and a paper published in Datz (orDCG ?) But it's not clear if the species has been bred or not.

a more recent paper has been pushed in DATZ in 2004 : http://www.datz.de/GEIZ2DH6lAXMr7Yp7F1omB1Ml.HTML

here are 3 pics used with permission of T. Papanfuss

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Image

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Post by Thomas Andersen » Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:36 am

Now, that´s an interesting fish you bring up there, Mark

On my former website we contacted Dr. H. R. Esmaeili to get some information on this remarkable cichlid, and sadly he could tell that it´s highly threatened by massive pollution from the oil industry in it´s restricted range in the Hormuz area, and it could just be a matter of years before it´s facing extinction :cry:

I sincerly hope the Germans succeed in breeding this exciting cichlid, so it won´t be totally lost

All the best,

Thomas

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Post by Don Hiatt » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:58 am

I can't believe this post just popped up! This has been one of the top fish on my "fish wish list" for several years now. I saw the same page from Datz when it came out, but haven't heard anything since.

There are conflicting reports on the well being of this species in nature.
Axelrod stated this fish was at risk due to oil pollution, the effects of war and what not, but Brian Code (the person who described this species) doesn't appear to share this view.

This fish is mostly found in highly saline streams, and is only found in a few freshwater habitats. This was the main problem in establishing this fish in captivity for those who have collected it.

On another note, the same saline conditions may very well protect it from winter kills because studies have shown that Tilapia have a higher tolerance for cold in saline water.

I heard somewhere that Oliver Lucanus was trying to get some. I haven't seen anything on his website about it, so I would assume that he hasn't been successful.

There is very little information out there on this recently described fish and it's relatives from Ethiopia (Danakila francheti) and the Middle East (Tristamella spp).

If anyone out hears anything about this fish in the future, please let me know.

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Post by Thomas Andersen » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:12 am

I hope I´ll be mistaken on this one - it´s good news if it isn´t threatened :wink: :)

I just found this link to Brian Coad´s page, very interesting reading: http://www.briancoad.com/Species%20Acco ... hlidae.htm

Thomas

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Post by Mark Smith » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:15 am

Thanks Gentlemen

Thanks for the responses guys, on this intriguing little cichlid. Nandus, just a quick thought for you. Axelrod would be the last person's writings that I would even begin to consider. He is surprisingly ignorant when it comes to cichlids, and when he owned TFH Publications, would literally make up information in his books, and intentionally mislabel photos on a regular basis. As an example, check out his cichlid lexicon, and you'll see what I mean.

Sorry for that Nandus

Take care,
Mark

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Post by Don Hiatt » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:40 pm

Bathybates,
That's why I was quick to point out that the true authority on this subject (Brian Code) didn't agree with this. From what I understand, Axelrod was the person that stated this fish was threatened in the first place. Axelrod did much for the fish hobby, but he didn't know everything.

Read the section on conservation in this link.

http://www.briancoad.com/Species%20Acco ... hlidae.htm

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Post by Mark Smith » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:50 pm

Thanks Nandu

Brian is definitely the one for some good info on this cichlid. You would be surprized just how many people, including students of ichthyology and fish and game personnel in the U.S., believe what Axelrod has to say about fish as well as his labeling of fish photos. Its a real shame, actually.

Anyhow, no offense intended.

Mark

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Post by Don Hiatt » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:31 pm

None taken.

I feel Brian Code is the authority on this fish because he actually described this species and spent the most time working with this fish.

The reason I quoted Axelrod in the first place was to point out that he was incorrect.

Many people are PO'd about the lexicon he produced and I had a chance to read it for myself. Needless to say it wasn't much more than a picture book and that's why I didn't buy it. Commercially produced books are not the best choice to get scientific data anyway.

I would lean more towards saying most of Axelrod's info was outdated more than being flat out incorrect. TFH's way of producing books has been known to be a little sloppy to say the least. That is why you see the same picture on two different pages with different names and things like that.

The simple fact that he gave max sizes for Pacus at around 30cm and Arapaima at 60cm was wrong and he should have known better than to print that. These fish are still imported and people still buy them. Is this all Axelrod's fault? I would say no, but he should have made more of an effort to get these fish out of dealer’s tanks. He was an importer himself and this may have had something to do with it.

It doesn't mean the guy didn't know anything. Axelrod spent a great deal of time collecting species that have never been known before he discovered them. I would say that Axelrod was very knowledgeable about Characins.

When all is said and done, he just should have spent more time checking facts than stating opinions.

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Post by Mark Smith » Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:12 pm

Nandus

It seems to make sense that describer of I. hormuzensis would be the best authority on the matter. I couldn't agree with you more.

I also agree with what you had to say about Axelrod for the most part, except for the assumption that he should have spent more time checking the facts. That would have been the correct thing for him to have done, but when faced with the facts by those who worked for him, including myself on the Lexicon, he would simply ignore them. Part of the reason for that was that he was in a hurry to get it out ahead of a rumored cichlid atlas to be published through Tetra, a rumor that eventually proved unfounded. Even Dr. Burgess, a classically trained ichthyologist, and an employee of Axelrod, couldn't do much to alter what Axelrod wanted to have published in the lexicon. Needless to say, Burgess finds the lexicon not worth the paper it was published on.

Mark

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Post by Mark Smith » Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:14 pm

P.S.

Also, Gery and Burgess were the brains behind Axelrod's characin publications.

Mark

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Post by Thomas Andersen » Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:40 pm

Sorry guys for leading you out on a wrong track - it sounds strange that Eshmaeili, who has collected specimens for Brian Coad, should have given this information. I think I´d better have a little talk with my former fellow-admin. who appearantly has been corresponding with Eshmaeili - I have a feeling that the information has just been taken somewhere on the net :roll: :lol: :lol:

Thomas

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Iranocichla - reproduction successful

Post by feilchenfeldt » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:04 pm

Hi everybody,

former attempts to reproduce Iranocichla hormuzensis (described in DATZ 3/2002; 2/2004; 9/2004) by Schulz failed.

But in July 2005 I went to Iran and collected some 50 juveniles. I published an article about the trip in "Aquaristik Aktuell" 3/2006 (a german magazine). Depending on the copy rights I'll put an English translation online.
The fish live in extremely saline lakes and rivers (40-80 mS/ cm conductability, if americans understand this units ;-) ) also more than hundred kilometres away from the coast. As far as I could see there is no threat by heavy industrie or intensive agriculture. (As there is none of these two !!!)

In the beginning the fish where indeed extremely sensitive and an the first few days many died, but then I found the trick:
after reducing the salinity of the water to under 10 mS/cm the fish were stable. In this conditions they are extremely robust and there where no further losses.

In jannuary my father and me arrived reproducing Iranocichla, following some pictures, a further description can follow if there is intrest.
Anyone who want some of these beautiful, small, comparably peacefull chichlids has either come to Austria or to Iran. (both very beautiful places)
Sorry for my bad English.

Hannes Svardal

Image
a male 7 cm total length (in aquarium they don't seem to get much bigger)


Image
mouthbreeding female

Image
babies of 1 cm TL (after leaving the mothers mouth)

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Post by Mark Smith » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:33 pm

Hi Hannes

Amazing! Thanks for sharing your success and photos with this unusual cichlid!! Its also good to know that it is no immediate danger of going extinct in the wild.

Mark

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Post by Lisachromis » Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:55 pm

Wow, I've never seen any photos of these cichlids before. They're very pretty!

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Post by Thomas Andersen » Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:39 am

Fantastic! :shock: :shock:

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Post by Ken Boorman » Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:33 am

Awesome little fish! Wish we could get some 8)

Ken
A.N.G.F.A. North American Co-ordinator

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Post by Don Hiatt » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:30 am

Good job feilchenfeldt. If I remember correctly, the only freshwater habitat this fish is found was a small spring fed pool that the author of the article I read was unable to find. This has to be a first for spawning this species. You are probably one of the first to keep it so I am sure that goes without saying.

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Post by feilchenfeldt » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:16 pm

as I said they do well in (nearly) freshwater with a salinity of 5000 µS/cm
less I didn't try as it feavours skin deseases...

I also saw such a "freshwater" pool, which was fed by a source, but the salinity was anyway 3000 µS/cm
it was at Tang-e-Dalan, at/near (?) an old Iranocichla habitat recorded by COAD, but in the pool there were only a species of large barbs and a species of loaches (as none of these two species could be found anywere else in the province I assume they were introduced)
maybe the iranocichla were suppressed there by the introduced species so that they disappeared.
Anyway as Iranocilcha are very adaptable its not so important.

BR,

Hannes Svardal[/u]

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Post by Dan Woodland » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:32 pm

Excellent! I have to admit, when I saw the title of this post I figured it was a joke but much to my delight, I see it’s a very nice story and an even nicer fish! Congratulations! Dan

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